Revelation !!

[Geoff133]

Hi Edgar
That makes sense and clarifies what was happening when I thought I was selecting the correct function for a slidder as a dimmer. As pointed out in a previous post I was in fact creating groups of slidders for invidual lights for effects all at the same time without testing each one so when I went to run the project some worked and some did not and this was the same for knobs. Even though on screen (Qlc) the slidder or knob showed it was working the MIDI board did not control the actual light.

I then believed the MIDI board was at fault so changed the slidder function to another MIDI slidder to see if that worked. It made no difference. So then I activated the slidder or knob on screen to find that did not work either.
So at this point I checked the settings within the slidder to find it reset to "none" which I did not understand at all.
Trying then to reset that back to "Intensity" seemed to work but on revisiting the setting it was "none" again.

You can probable imagine my frustration having setup some 6 sliders and 6 knobs and all had the same issue.
I did find that if I set a "Dimmer" slider to "Gobo" the slider, MIDI, DMX light and and screen all worked correctly.

Obviously this left me at a loss as to what was going on and whether using "Gobo" was causing some of the other issues I had.
Again a previous post suggested I was asking Qlc to do something in contradiction with another setting.
My current fully working project eliminiates that by only useing VC for the Audio controller which controls only moving head lights and gobos and my sequence running in Show mode with music only control Par lights with me controlling dimmers etc on screen through Simple Desk.

In a post above it was suggested that my "issues" were not generally reported and were unique to me.
So I have reloaded a previous "faulty" project to document the problems with images to show what was happening and why I got frustrated.

To give you an example I have attached screen shots of my current fully working project which shows the Simple Desk state on startup of Qlc without any actions taking place.

Now I will point out that this is a simple in program issue and does not affect the running project or bother me in the slightest and no work needed to resolve this.
Also, as a programmer myself, I do understand and am more tolerant of an issue and look for a work around to get the result I want.
That is how I have now ended up with a fully working project which, later this week, be loaded onto a new deicated "Qlc" computer for my next event in a couple of weeks time.
Having moved away from some of the other usefull functions that Qlc has and simplifying my lights into group sets using the same DMX first channel, in effect a slave function for that group, and using Simple Desk to make dimmer and strobe effects i do not have any problems.

Here are the two screen shots one as loaded by Qlc and the other in "View" mode, which is correct. Obviously this is showing the gaps now created by grouping the lights useing the same initial DMX channel and perhaps you might think I am being "picky" however this is not an issue and only shows what some might see as a problem.

[Geoff133]

It would be nice to use VC as the front end to my show and get back to a functioning chaser but having retried that a couple of days ago when everything was working fine I found issues again with Simple Desk sliders sticking in a setting when it should have reset to sequence set position. Also when viewed in "Edit" mode the screen display was different to "Run" mode which was odd because edit mode was correct. What this meant was you could not start and stop a sequence you had to close down Qlc and restart it. This is where Qlc seemed to "remember" where the Simple Desk slidders were when last used and could not be reset to zero. The answer was to open Qlc by itself and then open the project after ignoring the previous "save before closing" warning.

Any way as I say I am fully functional now and at last have some time for myself and my dog to go walkabout.

TTFN

[edogawa]

Geoff,

the amount of text you are producing to describe your success or failure and proceedings is really hard to follow IMHO.

You have been asked at least twice to provide your workspace file.

These screenshots don't particularly help either, we really need to see how you set up your show and VC, and be able to investigate what function is used where, to understand your issues.

If you don't want or can't share that file (and custom fixture defs if any), could you please prepare a smaller demo file for demonstrating the problems you are facing?

[GGGss]

After reading the extensive posts, I can only conclude that Simple Desk interferes with your other functions.
Use Simple Desk as an investigation or an override tool. Simple desk has the utmost priority...

The building of a working QLC+ environment consists of 4 steps:
1) having your fixtures and output devices configured ,
2) create some statics (mostly by using scenes)
3) add some dynamics (by using chasers)
4) add some EFX and build a working VC

[sbenejam]

After reading the extensive posts, I can only conclude that Simple Desk interferes with your other functions.
Use Simple Desk as an investigation or an override tool. Simple desk has the utmost priority...

The building of a working QLC+ environment consists of 4 steps:
1) having your fixtures and output devices configured ,
2) create some statics (mostly by using scenes)
3) add some dynamics (by using chasers)
4) add some EFX and build a working VC

It is also useful to report which operating system, QLC+ version. Also important are which DMX devices or fixtures, control devices (DMX, MIDI, OSC) are used in the project. How many more details of your configuration you give us, better for us to help you.

[Geoff133]

Currently I have a fully working project. In order to send a "Non working project" I need to investigate myself with the lessons I have learnt and posts I have read.

It seems one of my problem issues has been looked into and varified from a post above..
On that same issue I am looking through VC at other issues and I include another when a slider that works erratically.

After I discovered the issue above where the "Intensity" option changes to "None" by itself and there for the Slider does not work I followed advice given and used the Gobo option for dimming. This worked on screen and the MIDI board also replicated on screen however the light did not dim. You will see from the attached images what went on.
This was not the case for all light groups as the moving head group does dim.

So I realised that although I had set the DMX dimmer as the function I wanted and did not work I used sliders in Simple desk to find which slider affected dimming.
This turned out to be No 6 for that Par light which was the Par internal feature. The dim slider in Simple Desk did nothing.

So I then added No 6 on the Par light to my VC slider which worked however in a strange way. Slider fully on 255 turned the light off then reducing set various options within the light which was correct down to 010 which turned the light off again so I still did not have a dimmer but the ability to turn a group of lights on or off helped.

Now my working software system which I successfully used last year does control using the Dimmer function of the light so this left me with head scratching.
I then decided to use the Min Max function of the widget in gobo mode to keep the slider range where it would be in a work "on" state and then an "Off" state and not have the ability to Dim the lights.

Well this did not work either because as you will see in the images below that the slider would not go above 055 which is weird as the the Min value was 010 and the Max value was set to 210 which was the range I wanted.

This is why using VC, for me, has become unusable and on the working project I use Simple Desk to change sliders having put all my lights into groups with the same address. As there is no way to integrate the MiDI keyboard in Simple Desk I have resorted to a touch screen which will make my life easier at my next event.

As someone explained above some of the code in Qlc is related to legacy issues which are no longer valid with modern DMX lights that have multi functional capabilities.
Its just unfortunate that my finding Qlc and watched various Youtube videos on how it was used and thinking it could replace my existing system and add more functionality would lead me down a rabbit hole of issues I did not expect.

That said I do now have a working system and have learnt a lot about Qlc what it can do and what, at the moment, I call its limitations.

As I have said before I will add a profile of settings from my "failed" attempts for whoever to peruse at thier will.

So here are the images in trying to get dimmer control on a group of same lights. Thats the PAR36 group of 4 DMX static RGBW lights.

[Geoff133]

I also hasten to add that the Knob shown for Strobe effect does work either although on screeen and MIDI seem to indicate it does however this might be a light control issue not necesarily a Qlc one.

Incidently VC controls are direct to the fixture and not through any sequence setup or even part of a chaser so I cannot see how any of the VC problems would be in the project file ? The slider actions are also replicated in Simple Desk sliders.

Please remember these are not criticism's, they are merely observations and I am a great believer that Qlc is a good piece of software and I do have a working system for my next event now.

TTFN

[sbenejam]

Please share your project file. It's impossible to follow your explanations, issues i thinkings about your project whitout know your are doing in your project. For example a Solo Frame has special features: https://docs.qlcplus.org/v4/virtual-console/solo-frame
It seems you are doing things that are not recommended to do as best practices using QLC+.
Please share your project file.

EDIT: If you set the slider at 255 the Mode channel is set to Sound Control. If you set the Slider at 127 the intensity is set to 127 and the MOde channel is set to 127 too putting the fixture in Color Pulse transform.

[Geoff133]

As I have said before I am currently investigating issues with the "saved" failed project files and, thanks to posts from others have identified some of the reasons why parts of VC do not work properly. As for sending a project file to someone who I do not know that is a no no anyway.
Yes I will post to Massimo should he request it but I think from responses I have had from him and others there are a few legacy issues that might need addressing.
As I now have a working system and Massimo is working on version 5 I would think these issues may not be addressed especially as many people use Qlc in its current form and do not require some of the functionality that I was hoping for.

TTFN

Yes I have just seen your edit and I am fully aware of how all my lights work and there functionality. I have been using them for over 2 years !!
That is not an issue.
Just checked that particular light and yes you are correct from 211 to 255 is sound mode and I do use that occasionally however your other figures are incorrect and in any case does not affect how Qlc works anyway.

[sbenejam]

Another observation the Community section of this forum is to share experiences. If you have an issue using QLC+ you have to put your posts i a correct section, informing about your OS, QLC+ Version, DMX fixtures and other hardware or software used in a project. Describe your issues and erros and how to reproduce it.

The control of DMX lights is complex if you don't know what is done. It is not only up and down the levels of the DMX channels. Current fixtures are more complex than choosing a color and intensity level.
Developers to check whether the program fails or not, need information and data to be able to reproduce the possible error.

"Community
This is a place for sharing with the community the results you achieved with QLC+, as a sort of use case collection.
You can share photos, videos, personal hardware/software projects, interesting HOWTO that might help other users to achieve great results."

[Geoff133]

?? Thats exactly where this post of mine started. Revelation - discovering ways to get results for a project and my experiences and pit falls that may well help others with similar ideas or projects.
Also helping others with work arounds for something they hope to acheive.
My project is now fully functional and later posts will include photos and videos at an event with Qlc running it.

What more of an accolade for Qlc could anyone want ?

TTFN

[sbenejam]

?? Thats exactly where this post of mine started. Revelation - discovering ways to get results for a project and my experiences and pit falls that may well help others with similar ideas or projects.
Also helping others with work arounds for something they hope to acheive.
My project is now fully functional and later posts will include photos and videos at an event with Qlc running it.

What more of an accolade for Qlc could anyone want ?

TTFN

At the moment, your posts don’t help others work with QLC+. I think they create more confusion than they help. Without a detailed description of your configuration, other users cannot get an idea of how you get a Revelation!!!.

[mcallegari]

OK, I'm moving this to issues as this discussion is abusing the community section

[Freasy]

As I have said before I am currently investigating issues with the "saved" failed project files and, thanks to posts from others have identified some of the reasons why parts of VC do not work properly. As for sending a project file to someone who I do not know that is a no no anyway.
Yes I will post to Massimo should he request it but I think from responses I have had from him and others there are a few legacy issues that might need addressing.
As I now have a working system and Massimo is working on version 5 I would think these issues may not be addressed especially as many people use Qlc in its current form and do not require some of the functionality that I was hoping for.

TTFN

Yes I have just seen your edit and I am fully aware of how all my lights work and there functionality. I have been using them for over 2 years !!
That is not an issue.
Just checked that particular light and yes you are correct from 211 to 255 is sound mode and I do use that occasionally however your other figures are incorrect and in any case does not affect how Qlc works anyway.

I hate to be that guy, but yes: as sbenejam wrote, on the third screenshot you have set a slider which from my understanding should control dimmer. But the controlled (ticked) channels are dimmer AND control mode. So I don't know if you are aware, that you will change both dimmer and mode value with this slider at once.

So slider on 0 means dimmer and mode on 0. Slider on 50% means dimmer and mode at value 127. And so on. Well this just doesn't work unless this really is a behaviour you want to have. So every time you change the dimmer value, the mode value changes accordingly. With this one slider. So this is not a fault of QLC+, but a fault of the one setting it up.

Also I still quite don't understand why you need the Click & Go feature for the dimmer channel anyway since you can see and control this with the slider. Instead of clicking on the box and dragging there you could just drag the slider. That's what it's there for.

And I shall try to make clear for the last time, why we need a project file, that doesn't work:
We can see exactly, how everything is set up. Also a project file on your PC will behave exactly on any other PC (ignoring hardware devices). So to reproduce any of this and understand why the things happen you mention, it is essential to have this because everything else is just shots in the dark.

And again, I don't want to sound rude, but yes I (and I guess others too) see that you are wanting to provide help for others if they encounter your problems. But it doesn't help blaming the software for things that were induced by user error. And sorry, this slider you did the screenshot of is just set incorrectly.

I'm quite sure we can clear this all up together, but as mentioned, if you don't answer the questions in a workable way and don't provide a projectfile, it is incredibly hard and ultimately everyone will just drop out of this and noone gets any help. Which is not desired.

Anyway I'm excited to see the video of your show and how it looks!

[Geoff133]

Thanks for your input. I am fully aware of the light functions and settings as I have used them for the last two years. As for using the dimmer and control option 6 on the light is because in Qlc that particular light does not respond to Qlc dimmer slider and the fact using controler 6 on the light does shut down the light , could cause other issues is not a problem but its the only option that in Qlc works. The intersting thing is that the Master Dimmer control provided by Qlc does work for that Par light group but on other lights does not so I am at a loss as to why that is.
Most of my other lights work correctly.

As for the "failed" project files as I said before I am working through them to find out for myself what the "common" issue are and so far its the facilities in VC that have caused my issues. Now my current working profile is working and the only VC facilty used is the Audio Controller using the "Sound" feature to control DMX moving head lights through sound "beats".

My "Show" setup works. "Simple Desk" works for group slider controls although I do miss my MIDI keyboard and "VC" works in providing some music backed light effects.

I want to make it very clear here that I HAVE NO GRIPES with Qlc or critisisms of the software, its design or the programmers that created it.
I have said my queries are based on "observations" in understanding the interaction between the different parts of the software.
With the help and guidance from other posts here I now have a better understanding of what works and what does not.

Please be clear I have had a fully working system for the last few years which involves 2 seperate paid for software products and a linking system I developed myself.

I found Qlc by chance, watched a lot of Youtube videos etc and thought this could be a way forward to use one system instead of three.

Ok I fell into some traps trying to figure it out and understand its workings as in a previous post, certain legacy features of Qlc do not work or cause problems depending on who uses it for what purpose.

I have stuck with Qlc over the last eight weeks in the belief in can do what I want hwoever it has not been an easy path.
Now, as I have said before I have a working show, thanks to your members, and a fair bit of discovery on my part.

PLEASE reread this to be clear about my intentions and wish for Qlc to succeed. As a programmer myself I have said before a program is never finished and changes can have knock on effects.

I am no longer looking for help etc. as i now know where the issues are and have a working system.
I am not a "newby" as I have been in the computer industry for more then 40 years building systems, stress testing systems and programming, so I do know a little bit about how things work and there interactions.

Thanks again to all that helped me through this process and I will put together photos and perhaps a video of my next event featuring Qlc.

TTFN

[Freasy]

[...]
As for using the dimmer and control option 6 on the light is because in Qlc that particular light does not respond to Qlc dimmer slider and the fact using controler 6 on the light does shut down the light , could cause other issues is not a problem but its the only option that in Qlc works. The intersting thing is that the Master Dimmer control provided by Qlc does work for that Par light group but on other lights does not so I am at a loss as to why that is.
Most of my other lights work correctly.

[...]

And that would tell me, that the fixture definition you are using for those fixtures is either not the right one or incorrect. The order of the channels in the list where you can select the channels is also the order of the channels of the fixture - in the defintion. If the definition does not match your fixture, it will do whatever.
I can't imagine any scenario where putting a dimmer channel and mode control channel on one slider would make any sense at all. At least for no fixture I have been dealing with, and I also created some wild definitions for some china thingys where basically anything could happen.

So apparently QLC+ thinks from the fixture definition you gave it that Channel 1 is Dimmer. So it will send this signal on whatever adress the fixture is patched in QLC+. Giving that you selected some colors on the color channels (just making sure, the dimmer alone does nothing if no color is selected) and nothing happens when putting the dimmer channel up, the fixture expects something else.
So first thing would be in this case to check, if the fixture definition actually matches the fixture (and the devil can be in detail!), the fixture is set to the same mode as the definition in QLC+ (where you also have to be sure to select the correct mode).
I have been fooled by this once, where I didn't look good enough and selected a similar named fixture, which had another channel configuration. And wondered why the fixture wasn't doing what I wanted it to. Or having a fixture in the wrong channel mode. It can happen.

I'm still convinced that once all those small things are fixed, you will have a great console to use how you originally intended to.

If you aren't interested in that, because you show kinda works, that's fine as well. But even though you have experience as programmer and use your lights for two and more years, noone is free of error. It can happen.

[Geoff133]

True - Thanks

[Geoff133]

Well this morning I decided to add a couple more tracks to my music list and while compiling them in Audacity all my DMX lights sudenly came alive to the music.
When I checked I had left Qlc open in another window with the project loaded but stopped however the Audio Controller had come alive.

This is not a problem, just an observation, as it has turned out to be very useful as Audacity has a visual beat function and I can now see and hear the beats in time with the lights.

[Geoff133]

On reviewing the above posts I can understand some questions are concerning my fixtures and there installation in Qlc.
Firstly, as I have said before, these fixtures have been in use successfully for the last two years.
They have been installed according to the manufacturers settings provided.
In the early days using Qlc and having problems, each set of lights operation was checked agains Simple Desk in Qlc and found to be operating correctly.

I am currently working through the codeing in the project QXW file to understand how that interacts with Qlc and see if I can spot any "errors" or mistakes in the way I have used Qlc which had previous problems and the current project that works.

As my project is working and I understand better the workings of Qlc I see no further need for analysis of what I may have or may not have done to get to this point.

All that remains now is my next event in a couple weeks time to see if all goes well. I am sure now it will and the "dancers" will enjoy a good show.
More on that after the event.

Thanks to all the members that provided insight to the workings of Qlc.